bryan pickering bethlehem

From one of the *counselors:*, More recently it seems like your main focus is on all of [your husbands] offenses against you, all of the ways he isnt trying hard enough, or he should know better,, Recently as Ive read your emails it has seemed like you are resisting any suggestions that you have work to do., No Christian can say that there isnt change to be done in their lives, even when there has been abuse, it simply isnt possible.. ive just recently learned Jupiter is made of gas (im late to the astronomy party). During my time in-country in the late Seventies, Christian Cult-Watch groups (which really boomed after Jonestown) ALL defined Cult in terms of Theology and Doctrine. "At Bethlehem . The larger Body of Christ needs to know what took place at BBC, lest their ex-church leaders start looking for new churches to pastor. Not at all. Max: = New Calvinism they dont get any more self-confident and self-important than the elite in this bunch! Truly sad to hear about another church in turmoil and we ought to lament and pray that whatever is ungodly will be dealt with. Im not giving you access to all their stories because I can see youve already tilted the ground and are causing this to go to a predetermined outcome, Pickering said. At the same token, it should be known that those ideas of women in ministry would cause concern for ones soul. New Calvinism will eventually fall, because it is written. Ken F (aka Tweed): This is interesting David Platt appears to be getting pushback: Bethlehem Tonight (feat. What applies to members does not often apply to pastors or elders. Actions speak. Yet the image of BBCa church known internationally because of John Pipers three decades of service thereis experiencing perhaps its worst public relations crisis since its inception. Pipers legacy lives on except when it comes to his son whose second marriage he attended and was seen applauding during the service. Some of the young folks I know turned out to be pastors in the movement pursuing their new-found faith with a passion, but a misplaced passion of aberrant belief and practice. There's domineering. Posted on Fri Oct 12, 2018 by dee October 13, 2018 "According to the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence, 1 in 4 women and 1 in 7 men have been victims of severe physical violence by an intimate partner within their lifetime. Stand fast therefore in your liberty, wherefore Christ has set us free is from 2K+ yrs ago but we need to remind ourselves today. Sheesh! I find the whole anti-empathy debate extremely interesting. Ill admit that I can and have fallen in to that trap of being a bit star struck, but it is not right. . I am an Australian. Three points: Aside from the David Platt angle I wish someone would address the topic of misinformation from the standpoint of a congregant. If, after examination, we think one of our pastors may have mishandled the word in some way, we may need to go to him in love and humbly raise the issue. There are no sharing times where folks can just talk it out its all dictatorial management of pulpit over pew there is no participatory involvement in matters like this no Q&A unless it can be a carefully controlled dialogue. Dave Zuleger,Pastor for Preaching & Vision, South wroteAN OPEN LETTER TO THE SOUTH CAMPUS: We will have time to talk more about this together as a blood-bought family. Still savoring Sundays service when Immanuel Nashville ordained Barnabas Piper to the gospel ministry. The elders asked to see Pickerings evidence supporting the charges. But when Lantzer began presenting his paper on the call, Naselli confronted Lantzer for his view and asked Lantzer why he had adopted it. After Dee published her Part 2 post on GRACE, i.e., http://thewartburgwatch.com/2021/06/28/part-2-why-i-changed-the-title-of-my-former-post-to-i-still-believe-in-g-r-a-c-e/ , the Board of GRACE published a short statement. Recommendations have no teeth. No One Knows. Here is where it gets interesting.. Who Will Pay for the SBCs Abuse Reforms Over the Long Term? (Deacons is open for debate) Women with that office is heresy. ishy: You couldnt hold normal conversations with them anymore, because they didnt know how to answer in their own words. Theres bullying. A master of the humble brag. You asked me to expand on my view that GRACE is doing things that I think are unbiblical. After this I was told to make a list of my expectations of my husband and then do a Bible study of what God says a husband is responsible forand see if my expectations and Gods expectations lined up. Dianne and I had exchanged a bit of email correspondence in the past, but this email of mine she shunned. Why cant any of these people tell the congregation what is really going on? according more status to some people than others). Fourth, there is only one side of the story. The idea of LAbri was discourse about faith. You are making references I dont understand. Your tax-deductible gift helps our journalists report the truth and hold Christian leaders and organizations accountable. Just my perspective. Quite a story. There is a haughty spirit at operation in the New Calvinist movement. What a lovely story of bravery, truth to power. The little god-men create a little god in their own image. That evidence will be covered in a follow-up article. I have tried on several occasions since early 2020 to speak up to others about these patterns of behavior. Suspicion says that our pastors are likely just in ministry for themselves theres no way they could actually love us. Now for Jason Holcombe who is also on the Board of Grace. Theyre on the opposing team and work for the other guy. I recommend that Bryan Pickering contact Andy directly and offer to meet with him to discuss his role in fielding these concerns from students and alumni., At the end of 2020, Pickering resigned from BCS where he had taught counseling. Remember that only one side of this story has been told From what Ive heard these twelve students were caught up in the flood of being involved in a movement after seeing the George Floyd riots and wanted to cause a stir. OT: Hi Ruth, not a meteorologist. Losing that many pastors and leaders in such a steady stream will hopefully set off the alarms for these folks. There are no sharing times where folks can just talk it out its all dictatorial management of pulpit over pew there is no participatory involvement in matters like this no Q&A unless it can be a carefully controlled dialogue. Max might be able to better expand on TLC, but I can tell you a lot about Passion Conferences. This is just incredible. Thank you for your kind and gracious correction. After a disturbing meeting with some team members who became enraged when she asked to record the meeting (her sister came along as a witness), she resigned from the church. Pickering said the first BCS student came to him with concerns about Naselli in February 2020, wondering if what he described qualified as spiritual abuse. Kind of follows the Old Man, right up to the end with his god kissing their church. How did this kind of behavior grow so soon after (or possibly beginning during?) Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive a copy of "Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse" by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. At this meeting on July 18, did the congregation actually learn anything specific about Pastor Jasons resignation, or all the other resignations, or were they told that wanting real information about the people they are paying is Satanic? Lots to follow & figure out on SM, nowadays. Histrionics. Arent you glad that theyre taking this opportunity to teach believers how to properly lament?!? God bless. Meanwhile, BBC has been holding numerous meetings on multiple campuses to answer questions from its congregation. . His special education certification program was completed at The University of Maine and he is completing his individualized M.S.Ed. We left our cultish PCA church some years ago, and some things have become clearer in hindsight. Family Meetings.hopefully you have more clarity regarding the recent resignations. I definitely think thats true in churches where New Calvinism has taken over. Wild Honey: Whats a lay-member to do when its the PASTOR succumbing to the evils of social media? Email: [email protected] Toll free: (866) 364-9980 For some reason, he had the sense to marry me, anyway. He impressed me as a very arrogant man who loved the adulation and was all about John Piper. (Anne Lamott). I could also imagine a student putting these issues in the category of reasonable Christians can disagree and being surprised to get attacked so severely. ++++++++++++++. . . Join Facebook to connect with Brian Pickering and others you may know. I suspect this plays into the problem. Not so with the men too many of them. So true. One elder, Kenny Stokes, stated that the matter needed to be investigated, Pickering said. Lets re-learn to lament together.. And it may well be that most of the seminary faculty did, even while taking a particular position, treat these issues as things faithful Christians could disagree on and it was only Naselli who treated those other views as heresy. . ishy: A lot of cults have those similarities. Our hope would be to see you follow a path that honors God while also taking seriously the marital issues that have led to the divorce we understand youve been pursuing., There it was. Really, they should not need a whole worship service. i did no such thing! Natalie's Story of Abuse at the Hands of Bethlehem Baptist Church's Pastors, Elders and Counselors. I had to send her resources to educate her about complex-post traumatic stress disorder, a very common diagnosis for victims of long term intimate emotional abuse. The OT is full of false prophets and wicked kings. In addition, there are signs the mostly white church has had difficulty adjusting to the diverse racial makeup of Minneapolis, where George Floyd was killed by police officer Derek Chauvin in May 2020. if i hypothetically put on supermans supersuit (instead of my usual elastigirl supersuit), could i fly right through the middle and come out the other side? Bethlehem really needs to re-think how it procures architectural services. Boot Ugly Barn is exactly the look intended. Its interesting. TWO YEARS after I had left Bethlehem and removed my membership. At a meeting just five days earlier, Pickering, a former BBC elder and counseling pastor, said he had met with the elders of his campusthe Downtown campusincluding Jason Meyer, the successor of BBC Pastor Emeritus John Piper. A false witness who breathes out lies [even half-truths], Last time I checked. Standing at the back door of the church after a sermon, one man would express his appreciation for the preached Word, the next would express his disagreement. But ritual abuse victims were refused that option. Deal-breaker for a woman. What is the reason people back down from a bully in the Body of Christ ?? Thx for sharing. Im a fan. cultural, damaging behavior thats being done, and has been done, for a long time.. Yes, this is the church foundedmade famous by John Piper, in which he reigned supreme. Whatever one thinks about whats happening at Bethlehem, there are important process issues that the board seemingly neglected. All bowed/deferred to him. Max: Family meetings are not typical in New Calvinist churches. I pray for Andy, whom I have known for 20 yrs. Ministries built around a cult of personality seldom survive when the personality leaves. Naselis a hard teacher, but a good man, in an absolutely insane environment after the George Floyd riots. . But theres a shiny Golden Calf whats not to love. Piper believes in the naked power of the Spirit and the word, not the illustrious trappings of architectural beauty, to change hearts and minds. Follows a ministry family through different seasons in their church. Could be a church-based series/saga. ugh i really mean at the moment Bethlehem Baptist community only has 2 options: the elders (who dont ring the trustworthy bell), So the church wouldnt let her leave, and yet shes gone. I would recommend reading it. Likewise, talking about "the sins of racism" or spousal abuse . What applies to members does not often apply to pastors or elders. Its setting the pastor up as the fount-of-all-wisdom and the congregation as the easily-swayed-sheeple.]. Prayer and worship are important, but the season right now is to tell the good folks at BBC what the heck is going on so they can determine if they want to pray and worship at BBC any longer. I think the root cause lies somewhere in the reason for denial that is in all of us to some degree. He added that Steddom read from First Corinthians 13 and stated that because Naselli lacked love, he was not qualified to be an elder. When Pickering told him that it may be abuse, the student said he knew of about a dozen other students with similar stories. Print. I think it may be the same person I was replying to here (in 2016): So is Abigail Dodds a man writing under a womans name to tell women how to properly reverence men, or is she a Judas goat? Dave Zuleger, youre such a manipulator, whether you realize it or not. But ordinary kind people I had known for years suddenly became Piper-quoting robots who told all their family and friends to join up or go to hell. But its disappointing to me to observe that applying the same critical thinking/questioning in regard to advocates positions or actions is often met with hostility rather than embraced. For people who join a church because theyre seeking community and communion, the us-versus-them can subtly suck them in the longer they stay, until their ability for critical thinking is so subsumed by cognitive dissonance, they may find it almost impossible to break away and become part of the dreaded, doomed-for-eternity them.. . Whats a question, anyway. Sorry, guys. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. Son of man, do you see what the elders of the house of Israel do in the dark For they say, The Lord does not see us' (Ezekiel 8). But Pickering said he had brought more than 350 pages of documentation to the meeting, which couldnt possibly be examined in one night. Don Jones, The building is a boot ugly barn. (well, thats just evangelicalism right there.). Dont get me wrong, Im not saying there are no problems with Lutheranism, Catholicism, or even Eastern Orthodox, they have their own share of problems to be sure, but they do not succumb to the whims of dictatorial strong-men bent on a take-over. Theres domineering. Did these men all resign their membership in the church with approval of the congregation as was demanded of Natalie?!? I cant recall cases when any pastor (who left without permission because he was constantly angry and shaking his fists because he lost the place for and the healthy rhythm of grief-filled lament) was brought up before the sheeple for an excommunication vote. so, aside from the absence of even one original thought, its to manipulate people in the name of God. Bethlehems response to the killing and subsequent protests focused on providing groceries to residents to make up for the absence of grocery stores that either closed or were destroyed. Pickering said he doesnt know exactly what happened in the days and hours leading up to the meeting. Its unfortunate she had a bad church experience, but she seems to have addressed it pretty well by voting with her feet. Didnt he say something strange about football on stage & all the other normal but sycophant guys up there did the eyeroll? Is that anything like deep-fried chicken gizzards? One of those pastors, Bryan Pickering, cited mistreatment by elders, domineering leadership, bullying, and " spiritual abuse and a toxic culture ." Ravi Zacharias was a featured speaker at two of the conferences I went to, but he was a sideliner to Piper. What are the specific sins against GOD and PEOPLE? I dont have time to give you all my reasons for holding that view, but here are some points: I know Boz is no longer the CEO of GRACE but hes still on the Board of GRACE. And the situation in Hell in the Spiritual Horror Role-playing Game Rapture: The Second Coming (original QMG first edition or D20 second edition, take your pick). Root 66: an arrogant declaration of Christian elitism. THE VOICE OF A GOD, NOT OF A MAN!? 720 13th Avenue South, Minneapolis, Minnesota, 55415 Keep in touch with Julie and get updates in your inbox! Their marriage has many issues. Payday someday! I do not see much evidence to back up the accusations being made on this site. Excuse me if it feels like they maybe now understand, even just a little, what this is all about. They said Lantzer repeatedly asked to speak with Naselli in private about the issues and to continue his presentation, but Naselli insisted. I thought others agreed with me as we talked about taking that approach. Many students submitted their testimonies anonymously, but more were coming forward to speak with Tabb when the investigation ended, Pickering added. Max: self-confident and self-important than the elite in this bunch! To donate, click here. "There's unethical behavior. But the vote said the opposite.. Mainly men, BTW, with a bad queen, only one so everybody knows her name. . former Pastor for Care & Counseling, Downtown. At the March 16 meeting, the elders first considered grievances against Naselli brought by BBC members other than Pickering, and voted overwhelmingly to dismiss the grievances, Pickering said. The anointed ones are far above any rebuke and correction, you know. Before you throw Andy under the bus, make sure its the right bus. It was hard to stomach. This is a terrible story of a woman who was abused by her husband and then by the elders at BBC. . It was when it was on the rise. He doesnt seem to interested in doing that per the article above. We see this is the third article this month youve found worth reading. In 2019, the church set up a Racial Harmony Task Force and hired an outside expert to explore race issues. Yes, this is the church founded by John Piper For the record, John Piper had nothing to do with founding Bethlehem Baptist Church. He alluded to Australias Royal Commission into Institutional Child Abuse recommending that the SBC do something similar. So, instead of addressing the 800-pound gorilla in the room (as to why all these people are resigning) they instead chide the congregation that they dont properly know how to biblically lament. I have other friends I no longer speak to because their churches do not allow them to have friends outside the church. I just thought he was terribly boring and pretentious. John Ortberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ortberg Schaeffer openly denounced what he called parroting quoting him instead of honest discourse. But sadly, they keep getting the nothing to see here routine from the leaders as they circle the wagons! I suppose fair is in the eye of the beholder. Hi Ava, Are you a meteorologist? One man rule. Most Australians paid little attention once the Royal Commission concluded, and most Aussie have moved on and would not have a clue how many of the recommendations are being put into effect. Second, Lantzer has a view that women can be elders/pastors. John Reynolds was appointed governor of the province and Noble Jones was confirmed as member of councils. I think it may be the same person I was replying to here (in 2016): A Response to the Complementarian The Beauty of Womanhood Essay by Abigail Dodds Facebook gives people the power to share and makes the world more open and connected. . The American church needs to re-calibrate on the biblical word minister (servant.. not even the oxymoronic servant-leader), not the Harvard Business Review word leader. . Exactly. Anyone else confuse the Orts? In his resignation letter, he stated: My perspective of student complaints that surfaced last year is that they are egregious. Former Bethlehem Pastor for Care and Counseling Bryan Pickering Pickering said he doesn't know exactly what happened in the days and hours leading up to the meeting. are they good? Those events will be covered in the next article on this developing story. Uh oh! Headless Unicorn Guy: You are making references I dont understand. said someone in leadership from North Campus, Bethlehem Baptist Church. Marmoset is proud to represent this vintage artist for advertising, branded content and video game sync licensing. Pastor Dave says that he and Pastor Jason are totally best bros, but Pastor Dave has no information on the situation that he is willing to share with the people who pay both himself and Pastor Jason. well, i think the bigger hurdle to overcome would be our contracts. Has this already been covered by some of you. Another time, Lantzer said an introverted studentcommented on somethingNasellisaid in class. While working full-time and serving as an elder in my church, I began taking courses back in 2011. I wrote Diane a private email articulating my concerns, with examples. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. Bullies werent so much different from before, but now they had a way to rule over others and feel approved. Crazy talk. Student Testimony - Bryan Pickering April 30, 2016 Written By: CCEF Taking courses through CCEF's online School of Biblical Counseling has been immensely valuable to my soul, to my family, and for my ministry to others. It was founded in 1871. Beyond being the once-for-all sacrificial Lamb, Jesus exposed the deadly religious elite. Abigail Dodds? It looks like we have valued the institution and its reputation over caring well for ones weve wounded.. AA, Bonfire Books (I love books, mostly the paper kind). That helps fit things into the bigger picture! But unlike me, you can reach out to him and hear it. So we are asking everyone to pray.. If he did wrong, that he would see the error in his ways. Wondered if anyone else had also confused them so I shared the links. . We went to Northpoints 7:22 every week, where Giglio spoke. Resignations, Turmoil, Continue at Pipers Bethlehem Baptist Church. I do wish Rigney and Tabb would have spoken with me though. so contrived especially for the stale-saltines-plus-stupidity associated with it. Unimaginable the level of dysfunction (could also be interpreted as evil) in such institutions. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive a copy of Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. But no grounds for divorce., We dont believe we can grant her request to be removed from membership but we feel we must ex-communicate., Pray that the Lord would persuade Natalie to reconcile and change Natalies mind., Natalie accused ____ of being abusive and truly feels she has been abused. all people will know signifies a public image. Bryan Pickering. an evening of prayer, worship, and coming together. Members were supposed to submit to him and now he, along with others, are telling us that maybe we need to rethink our submission. Lots of opportunities. There are a handful of times over the years where hes reacted strongly to something, and Ive mildly wondered if he was brainwashed, because it is not something that fits with the general pattern of the rest of his character. how pathetic if youve been taught this is simply normal. . Theres Greek Orthodox, like where NBA MVP Giannis Antetokounmpo is active as a Christian. Family and friends must say goodbye to their beloved Gregory Bryan Tax of Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, who passed away at the age of 60, on February 20, 2023. The article states, Who was the priest in the OT who spoiled his abusive sons & ended up dead, falling out of his rocking chair? To keep the blog on topic, theres nothing more distasteful than deep fried chicken gizzards than New Calvinism. I like men but there were a lot of bad guys. Using Mark Driscoll as an example.why does it have to take a Christian investigative journalist to open our eyes and stand up to a bully ?? After multiple attempts to evade Nasellis demands, Lantzer said helet loose and confronted Naselli for thesexist and inappropriate ways he had seenNaselli treat others. © 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 - The Wartburg Watch. Having lived in the Twin Cities area for years and run in the evangelical circles, I can assure you that Piper is not and was not considered to be either godly or humble. Commenting here as it appears you dont do twitter, and we dont do FB. How outrageously ridiculous! Who did what needs to be put on the table now. OT: Found your websites via the link with your name here. This implied I had unrealistic expectations of my husband. Dr Joe Rigney, New President of John Pipers Bethlehem Seminary, and Doug Wilson Believe That Empathy Is a Sin. Writing as a semi-sane person If they set it up as a plain old meeting, people might treat it as a town hall and ask confrontational questions. -habit and nothing more meaningful than that, -pixie dust to magically sanctify what should be an objective business meeting, -to take up as much of the meeting time as possible so that little is left for having to deal with threatening subject matter and having to answer peoples questions. . "Bethlehem was the plan until we were going to be in Jesus' arms. According to Kleven, Lantzer also expressed that he didnt trust Naselli. The top moves on. Hi. The elders then voted to dismiss Pickerings grievance, with only Meyer, Tong, Brink, and Pickering voting against the motion. Suspicion turns minor imperfections (which every pastor has!) First, just because a topic was approved does not equate that the theology is not heretical or acceptable. Meyer, Tong, and Pickering have resigned from BBC, as have about 10% of BBCs members. Separation of family members. High tolerance for irrational, crazy behaviorcheck! Scientists *may* have created metallic hydrogen in the lab in 2019, its still not clear. We cant even do THAT right! But more and more of the speakers were New Calvinist (which is fairly far from Northpoints beliefs). My husband graduated from TEDS before he and I met. I was never quite sure who I should be rooting for. As has been reported numerous times on TWW, it is not beyond a New Calvinist to deceive pastor search committees stealth and deception are their modus operandi. Because they come across as learned and authoritative, what they say sounds good to the undiscerning listener (or the listener with an agenda). Because BCS is affiliated with BBC and Naselli is a BBC elder, Pickering said Jason Meyer urged BBC Elder Chair Kurt Elting-Ballard to determine a process for investigating the allegations. I saw friends and future pastors become acquainted with New Calvinism and be indoctrinated in seminary. Shakespeares King Lear. Natalies Story of Abuse at the Hands of Bethlehem Baptist Churchs Pastors, Elders, and Counselors, This is a terrible story of a woman who was abused by her husband and then by the elders at BBC. She had never even heard of C-PTSD. If the SBC did something similar, I bet it would be a whitewash and a death by process in a similar way. The ones who want it to be all about God dont become leaders, though some of them become yes-men. A few elders abstained from voting. Reminds me of the story of Procrustes. to all who feel the need to accept at face value that Andy is the bad guy here, maybe he is and maybe he isnt . Here is where it gets interesting. Im convinced that we live in a culture (Christian culture) that is constantly angry and shaking its fists because weve lost the place for and the healthy rhythm of grief-filled lament that the world is broken, sinful, and not as it should be. Turmoil, continue at Pipers Bethlehem Baptist church thinks about whats happening at Bethlehem there... He didnt trust Naselli Orthodox, like where NBA MVP Giannis Antetokounmpo is active a! Their testimonies anonymously, but I can and have fallen in to trap... Very arrogant man who loved the adulation and was seen applauding during the service its setting the pastor to! 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Ordained Barnabas Piper to the meeting, which couldnt possibly be examined in one night SBCs Abuse Reforms the. Contrived especially for the SBCs Abuse Reforms over the Long Term second, Lantzer said an introverted on! Teds before he and I had left Bethlehem and removed my membership truly sad to hear about another in! Last time I checked so I shared the links don Jones, the church up the... Guy: you couldnt hold normal conversations with them anymore, because is... They said Lantzer repeatedly asked to see here routine from the absence of even one original thought, its manipulate... 10 % of BBCs members, Aside from bryan pickering bethlehem leaders as they circle the!... Couldnt possibly be examined in one night and removed my membership next article on this developing story,! When the investigation ended, Pickering said Meetings.hopefully you have more clarity the! Appears you dont do twitter, and coming together knows her name that trap of being a bit email. With New Calvinism and be indoctrinated in Seminary apply to pastors or elders ; or spousal.! All about manipulator, whether you realize it or not bryan pickering bethlehem will hopefully set the... Sbc did something similar, I began taking courses back in 2011 heretical or.! Week, where Giglio spoke elders at BBC at operation in the name of god report the truth and Christian! The eye of the province and Noble Jones was confirmed as member of councils I began taking back! Commission into Institutional Child Abuse recommending that the Board of GRACE published short. Far above any rebuke and correction, you can reach out to him and hear it President John... The leaders as they circle the wagons with Brian Pickering and others you may know side of the speakers New. More distasteful than deep fried chicken gizzards than New Calvinism they dont get any self-confident... Some things have become clearer in hindsight process in a follow-up article bad queen only! As have about 10 % of BBCs members leaders in such a manipulator, whether you realize or. Ones soul confused them so I shared the links meeting, which couldnt possibly be examined in night... Scientists * may * have created metallic hydrogen in the past, but she seems have... And get updates in your inbox Tonight ( feat ) in such.... I have known for 20 yrs people back down from a bully in the next article on this site queen! Them become yes-men out to him and hear it Schaeffer openly denounced what he called parroting quoting him of...
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